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US bill would block export of Keystone fuels

Reuters -- * Democrats say bill would ensure Keystone benefits US

* Republicans have been pushing to approve pipeline

* Republican says U.S. needs more exports

By Ayesha Rascoe

WASHINGTON, Feb 3 (Reuters) - U.S. Democrats unveiled legislation on Friday that would block export of any oil transported by the Keystone XL pipeline, as they challenged claims that the delayed project would boost U.S. energy security.

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Submitted Feb 04, 2012 By: Bucksworth

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KAR120CSII Champion Author Oregon Posts:1,957 Points:329,115 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 11:04:25 PM Ignore KAR120CSII Report Abuse Good bill -- keep it here and/or Canada.
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:4,742 Points:760,040 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 2:42:52 AM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse TransCanada.... why are you not trying to send the tar sands oil mix to the eastern refineries that are importing oil from overseas??????
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:4,742 Points:760,040 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 2:40:36 AM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse Compromise..... add capacity to the Wisconsin pipeline (grin)... it would lower prices in the upper midwest
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:4,742 Points:760,040 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 2:36:46 AM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse I would call the GOP liars --- but that would be redundant. (grin)
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:4,742 Points:760,040 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 2:35:42 AM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse This must mean that "energy independence" and "lower prices" is nothing more than empty words by the GOP pols.... (grin)
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:4,742 Points:760,040 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 2:33:47 AM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse Funny how the GOP is screaming about a law stipulating what they have "promised" ---(grin)
honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:15,978 Points:1,248,125 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Feb 7, 2012 5:06:19 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse skywarn: you need to check that kool-aid. As Martinman said, no real jobs, but that's not the main thing. There is already high evidence that Pig Oil is exporting more distillates for their own (tax free) gain than they have ever before. Trying to curb that export is leading to what everyone clamored not to do... create a communist state. If you haven't noticed, you live in a country where there is still (albeit heavily regulated) some amount of free enterprise.
Martinman Champion Author Mississippi Posts:12,517 Points:1,740,045 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Feb 6, 2012 8:48:12 AM Ignore Martinman Report Abuse SkyWarnTX from texas posted... "Banning Export of Refined Gasoline would have to eventually lower prices...Thanks to INCREASED FUEL MILEAGE standards in the U.S. ,... The U.S. ALREADY produces more REFINED GASOLINE than it USES...GOOD MOVE Democrats... Excellent... Would drive Oil Companies crazy if they increased the already SURPLUS of REFINED GASOLINE on U.S. Soil and had to LOWER PRICES to MOVE IT...." . You need to do your homework. 1. The refineries along the U.S. Gulf coast that will be refining the heavy Canadian crude, have been upgraded or are in the final stages of upgrading, to produce a higher proportion of distillate fuels (diesel fuel and home heating oil) from the crude oil stock. 2. Valero, in it's January 18th, 2012 meeting to investors, laid-out a presentation showing how they plan to increase their market-share of U.S. exported refined products, above the current 26% market-share of the nearly 3 million barrels per day that is now being exported from the PADD III region. 3. Valero, in the same presentation, clearly show their intent to target for export diesel and Jet fuel, to Latin America and Europe. (slide-page 6 is pretty telling) 4. The PADD III region is currently exporting 1 million barrels per day of distillate fuel (diesel and home heating oil), at a time when diesel fuel has been running well above the cost for gasoline. This trend started in 2006. Energy Information Agency: Weekly Imports and Exports [Edited by: Martinman at 2/6/2012 9:50:41 AM EST]
OmeGas Rookie Author Twin Cities Posts:48 Points:594,085 Joined:Jul 2010	Message Posted: Feb 6, 2012 7:41:43 AM Ignore OmeGas Report Abuse Agree
clermont40miles Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:8,190 Points:1,413,700 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 9:26:50 PM Ignore clermont40miles Report Abuse Build the pipeline. Keep the oil in the USA if you can. Not sure a law would succeed but may be worth a try. [Edited by: clermont40miles at 2/5/2012 10:27:16 PM EST]
teafortwo Champion Author Washington Posts:17,039 Points:1,028,330 Joined:Feb 2009	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 8:28:30 PM Ignore teafortwo Report Abuse BIG OIL & GAS love us Some members have already made excellent points. Especially Gnusman53 from San Diego. Martinman from Mississippi? I fear many "minds" are already made up. They do not like to be confused with facts. Sad, but true. BIG OIL & GAS love us
KAR120CSII Champion Author Oregon Posts:1,957 Points:329,115 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 1:50:04 PM Ignore KAR120CSII Report Abuse Why do so many of the posters on this article sound fairly sane? Have the others gone off into the ether zone?
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:4,742 Points:760,040 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 1:04:17 PM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse In fact, I knew the US economy was in trouble before 2005, I met scores of people who needed three to four jobs apiece to keep their families housed and fed. One person I met had five part-time jobs, no health insurance and was still scrambling to make ends meet -- after his job and the company he worked for was sent overseas -- at taxpayer expense. My father, a WWII, Korea and Viet vet, was disgusted with what the GOP was doing......and he was a "card-carrying" republican. [Edited by: Gnusman53 at 2/5/2012 2:05:19 PM EST]
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:4,742 Points:760,040 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 12:59:21 PM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse As to the trade imbalance.... that is a big result of the GOP killing off and selling off millions of jobs over the past 30 years... Under W alone, 50,000 factories were killed or sent overseas..... and the jobs went with them... It would have been nice to have real concern for jobs back then..... but that was the last thing the GOP was concerned with...... So crocodile tears about the jobs now.... even giant ones from the Boner of the House..... matter little.....
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:4,742 Points:760,040 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 12:51:17 PM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse As to the continuous mention of "free markets".... I didn't know so many people believe in the tooth fairy... (grin) [Edited by: Gnusman53 at 2/5/2012 1:52:36 PM EST]
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:4,742 Points:760,040 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 12:48:28 PM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse Good post SkyWarnTx
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:4,742 Points:760,040 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 12:44:56 PM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse Nah... FunMyster....... Between the Liars Club (GOP) and the sometimes spineless club (Dems)... Kudos to the idea by the Dems that the GOP promises should be part of the law. The GOP said the oil would be for American markets. The Dems said okay.... put it into law. Please, note the screaming about doing EXACTLY what the the GOP said they were going to do.
SkyWarnTX All-Star Author Texas Posts:945 Points:56,845 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 12:38:28 PM Ignore SkyWarnTX Report Abuse Banning Export of Refined Gasoline would have to eventually lower prices...Thanks to INCREASED FUEL MILEAGE standards in the U.S. ,... The U.S. ALREADY produces more REFINED GASOLINE than it USES...GOOD MOVE Democrats... Excellent... Would drive Oil Companies crazy if they increased the already SURPLUS of REFINED GASOLINE on U.S. Soil and had to LOWER PRICES to MOVE IT...
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:4,742 Points:760,040 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 12:32:49 PM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse Good and factual posts martinman... congrats
FunMyster Veteran Author Indiana Posts:431 Points:45,610 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 12:31:21 PM Ignore FunMyster Report Abuse Somewhere between the two extremes lies the truth.
Martinman Champion Author Mississippi Posts:12,517 Points:1,740,045 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 10:36:54 AM Ignore Martinman Report Abuse rbrk02 from rhode island posted... "... Hard to believe that this is not obvious to most. And, any exporting we do can only help offset our own trade imbalance. Also, any jobs created are needed. Hard to believe that there are still people who wish to deny other Americans badly needed employment. It is very difficult to see this bill as anything other than an effort to discourage TransCanada from pursuing the pipeline." . Despite what is stated above and a few have stated below, the latest study by the Cornell University (link below), amoungst the various findings stated that the 10- to 20-cent increase in the cost for gasoline and diesel fuel - would in the first year alone - result in more job losses than the entire project would create over the entire construction period: Pipe dreams? Jobs Gained, Jobs Lost by the Construction of Keystone XL - completion of the Keystone XL pipeline will only generate 2,500-4,650 temporary construction jobs, over a 2-year period; - most of the jobs created will be temporary and non-local, utilizing existing Keystone Keystone and contractor employees; - current estimates are that only 10 - 15% of the total workforce would be hired locally; - During Phase I of the project, only 11% of the construction and inspection workforce in South Dakota was hired locally; So even if we take the high-number estimates, 15% of 4,650 is only 697 temporary jobs spread over the two-year project time frame. Here is a brief and excellent video taken during State Department hearings on the Keystone XL pipeline, by one of the primary authors of the Cornell report: Testimony by Dr. Lara Skinner, PhD, Cornell University Finally, let's not forget, that two phases of the four phase project HAVE been completed. Those phases that DO being Canadian crude oil to the U.S. (PADD II). Those phases that are already delivering tar sands crude oil to midwestern refineries and crude oil storage faciliaties in Illinois and Oklahoma, including the largest crude oil storage farm in Cushing Oklahoma - the same one you referred to on GB, every week. Currently, there is already an excess supply of Canadian pipeline capacity transporting Tar Sands crude oil to the U.S. These Canadian pipelines which are currently only operating at ~50% capacity, are directly supplying refineries in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, and Michigan. They are indirectly supplying refineries in Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas, and other midwestern states from Cushing Oklahoma. One last food for thought. The last phase of the project also has plans for a "Bakken extension". This extension would allow the transport of crude oil coming from the Bakken formation here in the U.S., via the Keystone pipeline, to the same Gulf coast refineries that will be refining Canadian heavy crude oil for export. Crude oil knows no allegiance. Once sold by the producer, the end purchaser can sell their refined products, to whomever they want, tax-free, to any other country in the world. And if you truly don't think that will happen, just look at who owns those Gulf coast refineries, where the Keystone XL pipeline will terminate, when completed. . [Edited by: Martinman at 2/5/2012 11:38:46 AM EST]
Martinman Champion Author Mississippi Posts:12,517 Points:1,740,045 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 9:40:35 AM Ignore Martinman Report Abuse ngc4565 from reading posted... "This is really silly. Do any of these fools in congress really understand how a free market works? Bills like these serve no purpose other than creating an election year talking point." . And do any of the fools below realize, that the concept of a "free market" is little more than that - a concept? There is no "free market". Now more than ever, the international oil market is highly manipulated by the producers, the refiners, and those who stand to benefit on Wall Street and other financial markets around the world. In a truly free market system, consider this. The number of "significant find" announcements have been unprecedented over the past several years, yet what has continued to happened to the price of crude oil? It sure hasn't decreased as would be expected in a free market system. How many here realize that RUSSIA is now the NUMBER ONE exporting country of crude oil - not any of the OPEC member nations? And Canada is now the third largest exporting nation in terms of total proven reserves. None of this was true five years ago. Most of the refineries in the U.S., DO NOT operate under a "free market" system. Most are located in Foreign Trade Zones, where they are indirectly subsidized by the U.S. taxpayers. Where they have the ability to sell their products free from taxes, tarriffs, or Duties - when sold for export. Realize, that the PADD III region refineries that ALL the Keystone XL pipeline crude oil is destined for, are located in Gulf coast Foreign Trade Zones (Port Arthur and Houston Texas). As per the , exports from these "zones" are exempt from any tax, tarriffs, or export duties. However, goods sold from these trade zones into U.S. markets, are subject to taxes/tarriffs/duties. Congress can simply amend the legislation in numerous ways, to effectively stop exports, by eliminating the imbalance in the profit margins: 1. It could reverse the tax/tarriff/duties exemptions - which currently tax only those "goods" sold back into U.S. markets. 2. It could maintain import taxes/tarriffs/duties, and impose taxes/tarriffs/duties on exports equal to or greater than those for goods "imported" into the U.S. (that's how goods produced in these trade zones are treated - as imports into the U.S.). 3. It could add windfall profits taxes, on only those profits derived from Canadian crude oil and/or refined products, that are sold for export. So in short, there are multiple ways in which the Congress could encourage refiners receiving Keystone XL Canadian heavy crude oil, to sell that crude/refined products here in U.S. markets, versus exporting it overseas to Latin America and Europe where there is more profit. If nothing else, it could ensure that the exports at least pay the same tax/tarriff/duties that those same products pay when sold-back into U.S. markets. It is simply a matter of removing the profit-advantage of exporting crude oil or refined products, overseas - over selling it here in the U.S. Sorry, but "free market" claims, are little more than a thinly-guished effort to distort the true reasoning behind the Keystone XL pipeline.
Martinman Champion Author Mississippi Posts:12,517 Points:1,740,045 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 8:52:42 AM Ignore Martinman Report Abuse Well, I see the forum's parrots finally came to roost below... . From the article above: " * Republican says U.S. needs more exports" . But weren't they literally saying just yesterday, that NONE of the Canadian heavy crude oil was bound for export? While that may be grammatically correct, none of the Canadian heavy crude oil will be bound for the U.S. either. It will be refined at several Gulf coast refineries, for export as refined products to Latin American and Europe. Why? You only have to look at the cost of fuel in Europe. . [Edited by: Martinman at 2/5/2012 9:53:23 AM EST]
nb52 Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:5,962 Points:1,187,445 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 7:29:08 AM Ignore nb52 Report Abuse Ditto NGC4565!
NGC4565 Champion Author Reading Posts:1,944 Points:390,115 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 7:26:14 AM Ignore NGC4565 Report Abuse This is really silly. Do any of these fools in congress really understand how a free market works? Bills like these serve no purpose other than creating an election year talking point.
gawxnative All-Star Author Atlanta Posts:507 Points:185,430 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 6:11:50 AM Ignore gawxnative Report Abuse Will help with exports vs imports which should lead to stronger dollar. That helps with oil pricing.
rbrk02 Champion Author Rhode Island Posts:3,035 Points:456,240 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 6:04:27 AM Ignore rbrk02 Report Abuse comprof, absolutely true. Prices are indeed dependent on worldwide oil availability. Hard to believe that this is not obvious to most. And, any exporting we do can only help offset our own trade imbalance. Also, any jobs created are needed. Hard to believe that there are still people who wish to deny other Americans badly needed employment. It is very difficult to see this bill as anything other than an effort to discourage TransCanada from pursuing the pipeline.
comprof Champion Author Houston Posts:4,938 Points:1,002,205 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 3:12:40 AM Ignore comprof Report Abuse How stupid can these people get. It is the total anount of avaukabke oil worldwide that affects the price.They want to give up billions in US revenue for a poliical purpose. O am ashamed I spent many of my young years as a registered Democrat. They have completely fallen over a cliff.
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:4,742 Points:760,040 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 12:41:42 AM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse Can't spell Greedy Oil Perverts without GOP (grin) [Edited by: Gnusman53 at 2/5/2012 1:42:12 AM EST]
el_fr Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:1,525 Points:385,275 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 12:19:45 AM Ignore el_fr Report Abuse You can't spell dumb without a D.
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:4,742 Points:760,040 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 12:02:06 AM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse color thoroughbred...mowerman and others as dyslexic.... they keep getting it backwards..... (grin)
kgbellman All-Star Author Ann Arbor Posts:901 Points:371,665 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 11:09:42 PM Ignore kgbellman Report Abuse Let's see if it passes
kd5kpd Champion Author Texas Posts:2,062 Points:1,069,020 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 11:03:39 PM Ignore kd5kpd Report Abuse Nedd to keep all resources here in the USA & only sell any excess.
Hoporrene Veteran Author Mississippi Posts:262 Points:125,220 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 11:01:42 PM Ignore Hoporrene Report Abuse We just need a new system...cause both parties suck
RAKARWOWSKI Champion Author Chicago Posts:2,202 Points:462,560 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:58:19 PM Ignore RAKARWOWSKI Report Abuse obummer and those dems must love opec and the widdle east more than America.
kgbellman All-Star Author Ann Arbor Posts:901 Points:371,665 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:57:10 PM Ignore kgbellman Report Abuse Let's see if it passes
Mowerman08 Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:2,997 Points:878,000 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:56:04 PM Ignore Mowerman08 Report Abuse DEMOCRATS #1 GOAL: CONTROL every aspect of your life! $2 make you DEPENDENT of BIG GOVERNMENT and the DEMOCRATIC PARTY by any means!
Is246 Veteran Author Albuquerque Posts:340 Points:205,300 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:54:50 PM Ignore Is246 Report Abuse It better help the US>
feldos Champion Author Florida Posts:2,640 Points:323,550 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:48:51 PM Ignore feldos Report Abuse I'm with Tigerpaw on this
TelsaOR Champion Author Oregon Posts:2,197 Points:445,860 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:45:45 PM Ignore TelsaOR Report Abuse Where ever the oil ends up it still is a benefit to the US economy to have it refined here.
Throroughbred Champion Author Cleveland Posts:1,031 Points:1,210,745 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:42:30 PM Ignore Throroughbred Report Abuse The democrats and Obama are not God. They need to stop interfering with free enterprise. Everything the government tries to control they screw things up royally. Get the damn pipeline built now, and get Obama and ALL his cronies out of the way come November 2012! [Edited by: Throroughbred at 2/4/2012 11:45:07 PM EST]
Kmankeith Veteran Author Rhode Island Posts:312 Points:167,310 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:42:23 PM Ignore Kmankeith Report Abuse Stop playing politics and build the thing!!!!!!!
12mpgnavigator Champion Author Seattle Posts:1,026 Points:294,435 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:40:06 PM Ignore 12mpgnavigator Report Abuse build the pipeline Odumba!
jrsva Champion Author Virginia Posts:7,784 Points:1,252,150 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:38:42 PM Ignore jrsva Report Abuse How about a bill to block imports of tar sands oil?
Prodaddy Champion Author Houston Posts:6,585 Points:1,535,770 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:33:37 PM Ignore Prodaddy Report Abuse This will never end
TIGERPAW46 Champion Author Florida Posts:5,561 Points:1,052,830 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:28:41 PM Ignore TIGERPAW46 Report Abuse As for local environmental concerns The company already agreed to reroute the pipeline around the concerned SENSITIVE areas. They don't need to specify Keystone crude. Just a political ploy to bring attention to themselves. If congress doesn't want petroleum distillates exported then by Gosh restrict ANY of them being Exported. Why single out one Company. O yeah typical partisan politics. If they restrict export of all distillates then they might step on the toes of some of the Democrats BIG Campaign Supporters. Also if they allow Keystone it might compete against some of their contributors. Maybe Keystone just hasn't contributed enough to enough Democrats campaigns yet. Bunch of BS. Washington can limit Export of petroleum Distillates any time by simply placing a high enough export tax on all Distillate exports from the USA, AND I wish they would, then they would have to sell more Diesel etc. in the USA, which would drop the price. Then we wouldn't have to Import any petroleum / oil from our unfriendly OPEC members. We would be free to pick & choose who we wanted to accept oil from. I'm sick of Washington's BS while we Citizens suffer unnecessary yrs of recession
WinderGuy Champion Author Georgia Posts:1,742 Points:610,390 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:26:31 PM Ignore WinderGuy Report Abuse Ok
egd Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:6,526 Points:1,814,770 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:24:30 PM Ignore egd Report Abuse if its about US fuel security, then it makes sense that no Keystone XL oil would be used to produce gasoline which would be exported
mfeldstein Champion Author Ottawa Posts:6,599 Points:1,618,760 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:20:52 PM Ignore mfeldstein Report Abuse It'll never become law.
monieet All-Star Author California Posts:506 Points:237,160 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:20:11 PM Ignore monieet Report Abuse Ok