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Ethanol likely to stay even if mandate ends

Minneapolis Star Tribune -- Ethanol, the best-performing energy commodity this year, is cheaper than gasoline, encouraging refiners to use the biofuel even if President Obama's administration ends a requirement to do so.

A 44 cent-per-gallon discount to gasoline provides companies including Exxon Mobil Corp. and Valero Energy Corp. an opportunity to profit by blending the corn-based additive into fuel, while easing prices at the pump for consumers. Marketers may use ethanol as they look for the cheapest way to boost engine performance and reduce pollution.

The most severe U.S. drought in 56 years has prompted lawmakers from both parties to ask the Obama administration to suspend the mandate because of the potential impact on food costs. Ethanol will consume 42 percent of this year's corn crop, ...

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Submitted Aug 23, 2012 By: BurntOrange

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fredtheturd Sophomore Author Kansas Posts:201 Points:430,825 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 9:45:27 PM Ignore fredtheturd Report Abuse Why not stop using corn to grow beef? Most people think that corn is essential for beef production but it's not required. IF we used corn as an interim fuel source until we could find another abundant source for ethanol production AND produce beef on grass (which is healthier for the land, animals, and people), ethanol production wouldn't be such an issue for debate.
Houckster Champion Author Atlanta Posts:9,407 Points:695,200 Joined:Sep 2003	Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 9:10:49 AM Ignore Houckster Report Abuse ROGERB quotes VETTEFAN: "Like it or not ethanol is a major contributor to using less imported oil. " . . . and then says: Let us drill our own oil! We can produce much more fuel by drilling than we could ever grow! PLUS, it cost less, works better, and is more efficient! ______ Let's do some reality. Both claims are wrong. First, ethanol has very little impact on oil imports.. Secondly, we will NEVER drill our way to oil independence. The US has only about 2% of the world's proven reserves of drillable oil. Our hopes lie with the Alberta oil sands and the North Dakota Bakkan shale formation and possibly other shale formations as well. It is because of these sources that oil imports from OPEC are the lowest they've been in years. As for costing less, that's untrue as well because US domestic energy costs more to produce since recovering oil from shale or oil sands is an energy-intensive process. It is only because world oil prices are high that the oil sands and the shale deposits are viable sources. If a barrel of oil cost $35, US domestic energy production would virtually collapse. And what of the Gulf of Mexico? Undoubtedly there is oil to be had there but at what cost and in what time frame? And at what risk? Deep sea oil drilling is a complex and dangerous undertaking. And new deposits often take years to exploit and deliver to consumers. Meanwhile oil from the oil sands and the shale deposits are being delivered now and the potential reserves from those sources alone dwarf the expectations from the Gulf. And does regular gasoline work better? Only in some ways. Yes, a gallon of gasoline as opposed to E10 will give one better mileage because there's more energy in that gallon of gas but we still need an oxygenate of some sort to promote complete combustion and what are we going to use for that if we don't use ethanol. Many forget that the real reason we started using ethanol was because we needed a replacement for MTBE. Also, because refineries are now geared to producing fuels that are intended to be blended with ethanol, the supply of regular gasoline will be somewhat constrained for some time even if it becomes a national priority. We need a national energy policy and the Obama administration would give us one that leverage all the potential sources of energy. The Republicans who are beholden to Big Oil are the ones who have fought a broadened energy portfolio that includes Green Energy and therefore a real long term energy policy. Will we get that policy? Only if Mr. Obama is reelected and the Democrats once again have majorities in both the House and the Senate because the current form of the GOP has proven that it will fight just about any Obama initiative just because it is an Obama initiative. [Edited by: Houckster at 8/24/2012 10:13:39 AM EST]
KrsnaDragon Champion Author Montreal Posts:2,547 Points:558,250 Joined:Nov 2011	Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 4:34:15 AM Ignore KrsnaDragon Report Abuse I believe ethanol is far too susceptible to phase separation to be used practically as a motor fuel.
kgbellman Champion Author Ann Arbor Posts:2,854 Points:759,540 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 2:38:26 AM Ignore kgbellman Report Abuse Are we too far down the rabbit hole for this to ever change?
RogerB Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:18,232 Points:2,651,060 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:25:09 PM Ignore RogerB Report Abuse "Like it or not ethanol is a major contributor to using less imported oil. " Let us drill our own oil! We can produce much more fuel by drilling than we could ever grow! PLUS, it cost less, works better, and is more efficient!
rahcat Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:2,681 Points:689,900 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:22:46 PM Ignore rahcat Report Abuse Corn for animal feed......not ethanol.
RogerB Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:18,232 Points:2,651,060 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:22:07 PM Ignore RogerB Report Abuse I've got nothing against ethanol, if it can survive on an open market without mandates and subsidies. (while we're getting rid of ethanol mandates and subsidies, let's get rid of the EPA also!)
mpg611 Champion Author Cleveland Posts:2,479 Points:596,795 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:20:38 PM Ignore mpg611 Report Abuse Who didnt see this coming?
crreed1 Champion Author West Virginia Posts:2,100 Points:2,550,715 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:18:46 PM Ignore crreed1 Report Abuse whatever the crooks want
VetteFan Champion Author Indiana Posts:9,879 Points:2,056,180 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:18:15 PM Ignore VetteFan Report Abuse Like it or not ethanol is a major contributor to using less imported oil. The U.S. has more vehicles on the road, most requiring gasoline. Ethanol mixture in those means less oil needed to produce the fuel to fill them.
RogerB Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:18,232 Points:2,651,060 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:17:49 PM Ignore RogerB Report Abuse "Its not like they are using sweet corn to make ethanol- this isn't going to affect our dinner tables directly. If feed corn it would have affected beef, pork, etc prices back in the day when farm animals lived on corn instead of hormones." This guy doesn't know much about hormones OR livestock. Corn makes up a major portion of the diet of most beef and dairy cattle, likely even more this year, with the drought reducing grass and hay production.
stratlinetime Champion Author Kalamazoo Posts:2,416 Points:590,560 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:15:03 PM Ignore stratlinetime Report Abuse Ok
pastorpaulcg Champion Author Virginia Posts:3,615 Points:775,785 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:14:17 PM Ignore pastorpaulcg Report Abuse I doubt ethanol could compete with straight gas on a level playing field
bobdec Champion Author Miami Posts:9,104 Points:1,797,520 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:13:53 PM Ignore bobdec Report Abuse If true, bad news
N5EXY Champion Author Austin Posts:5,632 Points:1,536,990 Joined:Jul 2004	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:12:53 PM Ignore N5EXY Report Abuse Take out the subsidy as well as end the mandate. Let it stand on its own and see what happens. If food prices are impacted then the subsidy is not needed.
C.Carpets All-Star Author Oakland Posts:573 Points:2,114,310 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:12:16 PM Ignore C.Carpets Report Abuse If the mandate disappears stations will start popping up selling 100% Gasoline. Which in turn, customers will realize they get better mileage with real gas. Ethanol will go the way of MTBE.
Rooster922 Champion Author Wilmington Posts:3,925 Points:682,795 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:11:50 PM Ignore Rooster922 Report Abuse Money talks, I wanna be money talks.
pyndasky Champion Author Maryland Posts:10,144 Points:1,809,505 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:11:42 PM Ignore pyndasky Report Abuse in a world where people are dying of starvation, it seems a little evil to turn food into gas... (just sayin')
zdcatc12 Champion Author Jacksonville Posts:2,147 Points:808,115 Joined:Nov 2010	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:11:05 PM Ignore zdcatc12 Report Abuse Of course
mrbee Champion Author Little Rock Posts:3,893 Points:2,493,310 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:10:58 PM Ignore mrbee Report Abuse No ethanol.
PrinceLH Champion Author Ontario Posts:2,832 Points:565,745 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:09:54 PM Ignore PrinceLH Report Abuse How unfortunate.
gocatgo Champion Author South Carolina Posts:15,821 Points:2,556,305 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:09:52 PM Ignore gocatgo Report Abuse Ethanol SUX.
hamdriver Champion Author Lansing Posts:3,496 Points:1,400,565 Joined:Feb 2008	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:08:47 PM Ignore hamdriver Report Abuse Boo
joel27nc Champion Author Raleigh Posts:10,672 Points:1,885,095 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:08:23 PM Ignore joel27nc Report Abuse Why
12766 Champion Author New York Posts:2,584 Points:1,511,115 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:08:20 PM Ignore 12766 Report Abuse OK
RichWLIN Champion Author Indiana Posts:4,244 Points:665,590 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:07:30 PM Ignore RichWLIN Report Abuse "Marketers may use ethanol as they look for the cheapest way to boost engine performance and reduce pollution" Boost performance? Huh?
SteelPenny Champion Author Dallas Posts:31,291 Points:2,633,690 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:06:59 PM Ignore SteelPenny Report Abuse The mandate ends right after the November election.
vibdata Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:4,181 Points:866,235 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:05:48 PM Ignore vibdata Report Abuse The fallacy is the "easing prices at the pump for consumers." There will be none of this. NONE.
discgolfur Sophomore Author Cleveland Posts:122 Points:21,140 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:04:09 PM Ignore discgolfur Report Abuse Its not like they are using sweet corn to make ethanol- this isn't going to affect our dinner tables directly. If feed corn it would have affected beef, pork, etc prices back in the day when farm animals lived on corn instead of hormones.
DustyHorse Champion Author Virginia Posts:6,222 Points:1,417,740 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 11:00:11 PM Ignore DustyHorse Report Abuse Hope mandate ends.
my3sons Champion Author New York Posts:4,633 Points:1,853,995 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:54:43 PM Ignore my3sons Report Abuse at higher food prices again
bonzoonfmb Champion Author Florida Posts:1,817 Points:664,160 Joined:Feb 2010	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:51:59 PM Ignore bonzoonfmb Report Abuse The price per gallon of ethanol has no effect on the price that the oil companies and gas stations are charging for their 'gasoline formulas.'
toytech3 All-Star Author Chicago Posts:917 Points:612,770 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:51:22 PM Ignore toytech3 Report Abuse You get all that with ethanol and worse gas mileage
Jeeputtputt Champion Author Ohio Posts:3,002 Points:677,465 Joined:Aug 2009	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:50:53 PM Ignore Jeeputtputt Report Abuse really don't care
wbpprint Veteran Author Chicago Posts:360 Points:1,430,145 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:48:25 PM Ignore wbpprint Report Abuse If the mandate disappears, then corn is not needed and therefore cost of ethanol may become cheaper since the Govt. won't have a stranglehold on the refineries
RevDrCBJ Veteran Author Ann Arbor Posts:385 Points:192,825 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:48:16 PM Ignore RevDrCBJ Report Abuse 42% of the corm crop going to ethanol . . . that's a lot of corn that could go on a hungry person's table.
beachmanglen All-Star Author Tampa Posts:764 Points:519,925 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:48:06 PM Ignore beachmanglen Report Abuse Forty-two percent of the corn crop going to ethanol means higher meat, cereal, and other food prices, which has a regressive effect on our nations most vulnerable folks.
Darwin00 All-Star Author Mississippi Posts:848 Points:292,140 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:46:42 PM Ignore Darwin00 Report Abuse I don't know how they are calculating its cost but if it is affecting food price it is more than what they are saying.
wbpprint Veteran Author Chicago Posts:360 Points:1,430,145 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:46:22 PM Ignore wbpprint Report Abuse Save the Corn, we need to eat.
THZebra Champion Author Indiana Posts:1,980 Points:675,135 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:45:12 PM Ignore THZebra Report Abuse HEY knot2swift !!! Speak for yourself. I thought everyone enjoyed a nice big bowl of algae with some sugar and 2% milk on it in the morning. Maybe not every morning but occasionally I like ....uh....oh....never mind....I think that was Grape Nuts. [Edited by: THZebra at 8/23/2012 11:46:17 PM EST]
EmperorsFinest Champion Author Chicago Posts:1,564 Points:340,870 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:43:38 PM Ignore EmperorsFinest Report Abuse I don't believe ethanol is good for any car...
96sc1 Champion Author El Paso Posts:8,517 Points:1,367,440 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:42:51 PM Ignore 96sc1 Report Abuse "Marketers may use ethanol as they look for the cheapest way to boost engine performance and reduce pollution". It does neither and that's why we need "marketers".
HawaiianGuy Champion Author Idaho Posts:9,660 Points:3,105,615 Joined:May 2003	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:42:23 PM Ignore HawaiianGuy Report Abuse This whole ethanol racket is a rip off. The American public knows it. TIme to put this fraud to rest for good.
mitchell6597 Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:3,462 Points:728,360 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:38:35 PM Ignore mitchell6597 Report Abuse Who thought this was a good idea anyway?
THZebra Champion Author Indiana Posts:1,980 Points:675,135 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:35:17 PM Ignore THZebra Report Abuse Less fuel efficient than pure gasoline, harder on the engine, drives food prices higher and (as we know now) is worse for the environment than pure gas. One of the reasons is ethanol uses more fuel than pure gas, thus burn more fuel (including more gas). There are 7 other ways also but some of the words are REAL BIG. But, in fairness, the upside to using corn for fuel.........(sound of crickets chirping) [Edited by: THZebra at 8/23/2012 11:38:30 PM EST]
jrsva Champion Author Virginia Posts:9,999 Points:1,639,950 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:35:10 PM Ignore jrsva Report Abuse “Ethanol is a very clean fuel.” It may be clean but that is about the end of its virtues. It has a very low net energy content, reduces the mileage of vehicles using it to the extent that no petroleum is saved, causes damage to some engine parts, and is especially hard on small engines. The tenor of this article assumes that people are dumb and will continue to use E10 if the price is a little lower. Some will but a lot of folks now understand that E0 is a better buy even if it is few cents more per gallon. If the mandate is removed more people will be able to get E0 and the demand for it will grow, causing the supply to increase.
Buddy2264 Champion Author Tampa Posts:11,797 Points:2,387,670 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:35:01 PM Ignore Buddy2264 Report Abuse Alas it cannot all come from corn. Sugar cane is better that is the way they make it in Brazil, but alas they cut down forests to do that. There is no one good answer but they will find better ways. Ford had picked ethanol as the fuel of choice in the beginning until Standard Oil convinced him to change.
knot2swift Champion Author Calgary Posts:4,506 Points:717,735 Joined:Nov 2009	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:32:04 PM Ignore knot2swift Report Abuse Why can't we make the $hit from pond scum? End this idiot "Food for fuel" argument once and for all. Nobody eats algae.
Taxrefugee Champion Author Arizona Posts:1,535 Points:413,495 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:30:00 PM Ignore Taxrefugee Report Abuse Guess we could always drink it.
mstearno Champion Author Dayton Posts:8,174 Points:1,755,920 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Aug 23, 2012 10:26:39 PM Ignore mstearno Report Abuse no food for fuel